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Doug's Music Snobbery

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Original Lineups vs. New Blood: How Replacement Members Impact a Band’s Credibility

 

Every band is different in terms of what is a legit version of the band and what isn’t. There is no rule about how many original members makes it legit. Context, importance of the member to the band’s sound, vibe, creative process, touring approach - all of these things can impact a VERDICT on whether a band is a legit version. Lots of factors can impact the credibility of a new lineup.

Original Lineups vs. New Blood: How Replacement Members Impact a Band’s Credibility

For the purposes of this post I’m sticking to the bands that are more or less still in business or have been within the last 5 years, and this is by no means a comprehensive list. Let’s take a look at some:

Some of the BEST

The Church The Church has one original member and it’s absolutely still The Church. This one would seem unlikely on the surface with both guitarists gone - both of whom contributed lead vocals on plenty of tracks between them. But Steve Kilbey has always been the main driving creative force and main voice of the band. And that’s not a shot at Peter Koppes, Marty Willson-Piper or original drummer Richard Ploog (or Jay Dee Daugherty who played on Priest=Aura). I love all of those guys. But as things have evolved Steve has always steered the ship with a steady hand and he’s never done it just to keep the name going. Each new member has brought plenty to the band without fundamentally changing it and they’ve continued to create new, original and vital albums including the most recent two companion albums The Hypnogogue and Eros Zeta and the Perfumed Guitars which were the first concept albums in an over-40 year career. Current drummer Tim Powles has been in the band now for 30 years for example and has brought a ton of value in the studio in addition to being a fantastic drummer. I’ve seen the new lineup live and it’s as good as ever.

Alice In Chains This band took some time off to grieve after the tragic death of Layne Staley. And when it made sense to continue on with a new singer to handle Layne’s parts live, they nailed it. William Duvall is fantastic and he fit right in creatively on the studio albums they’ve released with him in the fold. All three post-Layne AIC albums are amazing, and yes, Black Gives Way To Blue is even better than the self-titled album - don’t @ me. Jerry Cantrell continues to be the creative leader and he sang plenty of lead vocals the first time around anyway.

The Rolling Stones Only 2 of 5 originals - still The Stones. Here’s an example where as long as it’s Mick and Keith they can theoretically still pull it off, and that’s the only way it would work - with both. Ronnie obviously still adds to that, and I’m not saying this to diminish past members Charlie, Brian, Bill, or the other Mick by any means. But this new Stones album Hackney Diamonds still feels and sounds like The Stones. The Glimmer Twins have earned the right at this point to keep it going as long as they like and as long as they can deliver the goods.

The Who 2 of 4 and still The Who. Just like the Stones if it’s Pete and Roger it’s still The Who at this point. And they also made a great Who album just 5 years ago.

Joy Division / New Order Let’s give a shoutout to New Order for knowing that they could NOT be Joy Division without the late Ian Curtis. They continued together but changed their name, and in a further step in this conversation made possibly their best album 35 years into it after the departure of another key member in bassist Peter Hook who was responsible for part of their signature sound. They made a very “New Order” New Order album without him, with a few bass parts that mimicked his style but not too many to be obvious on Music Complete.

AC/DC Okay so touring with Axl Rose on vocals recently was ridiculous. But this legendary band somehow channeled grief without missing a beat into a continuation of AC/DC when Bon Scott died, roaring back with Back In Black in 1980 with Brian Johnson on vocals. And with all they achieved since they can still be AC/DC with Johnson and Angus Young for as long as they want in my book. Now granted, Malcom Young’s passing puts a huge dent in the creative process, but they’ve kept things in the family with nephew Stevie Young on rhythm guitar. And in a major comeback triumph, they released an absolute killer of an album in Power Up in 2020 using guitar riffs recorded by Malcom before his passing. The album included a return by Brian Johnson (having overcome an issue with his hearing) and Cliff Williams on bass and Phil Rudd on drums. A classic lineup indeed.

Deep Purple Another band whose entire history has been marked by shifting lineups even if we all agree the “classic” lineup is the Mach II of Blackmore, Gillan, Paice, Glover and Lord. But the fact that these guys are still making incredible albums with Ian Gillan on vocals, Roger Glover on bass and Ian Paice on drums is good enough for me. Don Airey is a monster on keys - so while the late great Jon Lord was a legend, Airey is a worthy replacement who has played with tons of artists and on many classic albums as a session guy since the early 70’s. Airey has recorded 7 albums with Deep Purple as the keyboard player for over two decades. The new “kid” Simon McBride (he’s 45) is fantastic on guitar.

Depeche Mode Another band where the two leaders (neither of whom were the original creative leaders) Dave Gahan and Martin Gore are the only two who remain but they are really the key components, and the recent album is fantastic. Gore is mostly responsible for the music and Gahan for the vocals and it’s been that way for a while… I totally respect the decision to continue after the tragic passing of Andy Fletcher - while being sort of the de facto band manager (which was certainly an important role in the band) he wasn’t a creative force in the band.

Some of the Potentially questionable

This category to me includes acts that still range from great to….not quite great. I’m basically okay with all of these on some level even if they aren’t perfect…

The Eagles The Eagles have had several successful eras with different lineups from the very beginning, so lineup changes ARE their story. At the heart of the band’s lineup has always been Don Henley and Glenn Frey though. So to keep touring as The Eagles after Frey tragically passed? Well, Timothy B. Schmidt and Joe Walsh are still on board, and step right up Deacon Frey! I think it’s acceptable for Glenn’s son to take his dad’s place. I’ve never seen The Eagles, but I would if they weren’t such an outrageously expensive ticket. I felt that way with or without Glenn Frey. For those of you who have seen both how do you feel about it?

Journey Would I go see this version of Journey? Maybe - but I wouldn’t spend a lot on it. The story of how they plucked the current singer off of YouTube is very cool. And he can sing - sounds a lot like Steve Perry. And yes, Steve Perry was not the original singer of Journey. But he came to be the voice that largely defined the band’s sound even though Gregg Rolie was no slouch. The problem is that the lineups that include the subsequent singers after Perry’s departure (see what I did there) while having very capable vocalists, have recorded mostly garbage albums. I’ve tried - they are bad. Neil Schon is a legend, but with Ross Valory also gone now it’s getting harder to think of this as Journey.

Slayer To me it’s still Slayer. But many fans question whether it is and I kinda see their point of view even if I don’t agree. The two best musicians in the band are no longer around - Dave Lombardo the GOAT of thrash drumming, and the late, great Jeff Hanneman who wrote the majority of their best songs. Now, Gary Holt is a monster and a legit thrash founding father with Exodus - a friend of the band who filled in for Hanneman with his full blessing when Hanneman was unable to play before he passed. I love that Holt is in the band - he brings it and he’s about the nicest guy you could meet. Kerry King is a bad ass in his own right even if he seems to take some unwarranted heat from the fan base. He was always Hanneman’s partner in guitar in the band - the two traded leads all the time and Kerry contributed his fair share of classics to the Slayer canon. Tom Araya is still the lead vocalist and bassist and a legend - he’s always been the voice of Slayer. Paul Bostaph is a kick ass drummer and was behind the kit for one of my favorite Slayer albums Divine Intervention. So Slayer is at the high end of this category even without Hanneman and Lombardo for me.

Sublime Sublime continued with three more albums and touring with Brad Nowell sound-alike front man Rome, and they called it “Sublime With Rome” which I think was a fair move. I like a couple of those albums. Now they are back to simply Sublime with Bradley’s son Jacob as the front man. That could be cool even though there has been some drama in the transition. We’ll see…

HELMET So Page Hamilton pretty much IS Helmet. He’s the main driving force and always has been - it’s his band. He writes and sings all the songs and is the lead guitarist. So when he agreed to start recording under the Helmet name again after a 6 year hiatus and basically a sacking of all the other members (Chris Traynor being the only holdover for a couple Mach II albums even though he hadn’t played on the Mach I albums) it seemed doable. It’s just that new Helmet, while sounding a lot like old Helmet, is just missing something. So it kinda feels a little not like Helmet.

Pink Floyd For anyone who takes issue with a Pink Floyd without Roger Waters may I remind you that he wasn’t the original creative leader of the band, and that the last Pink Floyd album he was responsible for sucked. Momentary Lapse of Reason is really good and The Division Bell is a masterpiece. I like The Endless River as well. The David Gilmour, Nick Mason and Richard Wright lineup that produced those releases alone would put Floyd in the “best” category. It’s the 2022 song Hey Hey Rise Up in support of Ukraine without the late Richard Wright that puts them in the questionable category. Yes this was a one-off and Gilmour has said he has no plans to do anything else as Pink Floyd, but this……ain’t Pink Floyd. It’s an accapella vocal recorded in Ukrainian by Andriy Khlyvnyuk from the Ukranian band BoomBox set to some new music Gilmour and Mason recorded for the release. Nice sentiment to support Ukraine. Musically? AS Pink Floyd? Yikes.

Some of the worst

Pantera No original members even though Rex Brown has been on every album. Perpetual train wreck Phil Anselmo is the vocalist most associated with the band from the classic era but was a bitter enemy of the founding Abbott brothers (also train wrecks in their own right) for years. Despite a couple of half hearted overtures between all involved there would very likely never have been a revival of the Pantera name while the Abbotts were still alive. Now that Dimebag has been murdered and Vinnie has died there’s a Pantera again? Nah… and it includes Zakk Wylde and Charlie Benante but still, no thanks. Also hard for me to get past Phil’s Nazi salute in 2016 no matter how many drugs he may have been on. Sorry.

The Temptations There were several legit lineups of The Temps. The first classic lineup of Ruffin, Kendricks, Williams, Williams and Franklin only existed for 5 years before David Ruffin left. But any lineup with Otis Williams, Melvin Franklin and Dennis Edwards is legit in my book and Richard Street was a legit Temp. But by the late 80’s and into the 90’s you start to get some lineups with no lead vocalists remaining from any of their best work. Melvin Franklin and Otis Williams never sang many featured leads and after Franklin passed away that was all she wrote. Except……. there is STILL a “Temptations” with only Otis Williams remaining in the group from any lineup of significance for the last FORTY years… if someone wants to make a case that I've truly been missing out all this time on the albums they keep releasing by all means I’m listening. But this is a vocal group - with one original vocalist who doesn’t sing lead vocals. This is not The Temptations as far as I’m concerned. Does anyone listen to these records?

Foreigner The worst offender of them all. Charging money for concerts without ONE original member playing. Are they Menudo now? They have made one album with the current lead vocalist / Lou Gramm impressionist (in 2009 - a full 15 years after their last album with Lou Gramm Mr. Moonlight that no one noticed) and Mick Jones is still officially considered a member kind of, I think, but he doesn’t play live anymore (he suffers from Parkinson’s). So maybe they’re actually Charlie’s Angels now and Mick is Charlie. And listen - I love classic Foreigner so this pains me.

The Spinners Okay I lied. The Spinners are as bad as Foreigner. There are no Spinners involved at all with The Spinners. The only two Spinners from any of the classic eras who are still living are G.C. Cameron who sang lead on It’s A Shame before leaving in 1972 (& briefly rejoining from 2000-2003) and Jack Edwards who joined late and sang the Cupid / Working My Way Back To You covers in 1980. Neither have been involved for over 20 years. Yet there are 5 people selling tickets to shows calling themselves The Spinners. Maybe I’ll start touring with my band as The Ramones - yeah THE Ramones. Might as well. I’m sure someone could be fooled into buying a ticket. Oh, and “The Four Tops” are doing the same thing…there are no Tops in The Four Tops.

KISS Here’s one that is uniquely horrible. Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons are the obvious leaders of KISS and the two original members that have always been in the band continuously since it’s inception. They just completed yet another “final tour” crowing constantly about how they’re going out on top even though Paul hasn’t been able to sing worth a crap for decades now. They’ve been using backing tracks not just to fill in some musical parts but they’ve been using pre-recorded vocals and defiantly denying it all the way despite visual proof. And the biggest joke of it all is that they’ve had members/contributors Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer pretending to be Peter Criss and Ace Frehley with Peter & Ace’s makeup and outfits, claiming that they are just playing characters - that it’s just a uniform. This, after years of saying originally that the makeup were actually alter egos and extensions of each member’s personality indivdually, and also shitting on the idea of coming up with a new character like “Monkey Boy” (Paul’s words) which in turn has the effect of shitting on Eric Carr - the beloved Fox character in the band who tragically passed away of cancer (and which it has come to light that the band basically treated him like shit when he got sick). They’ve suggested that they could get all replacement members to continue KISS and/or some half baked avatar show they might roll out. They’ve tarnished their legacy horribly.

Other past examples

INXS This was one of the more interesting scenarios of all time. After Michael Hutchence’s tragic passing (I’ll never totally get over it), it seemed like the end of INXS. Such an incredible frontman seemed irreplaceable in this case, but the band let us into their search for a new lead vocalist on the reality show Rock Star and it was actually pretty cool… JD Fortune won the contest and they made an album with him that was respectable. It wasn’t the same without Michael but it was still kinda cool to hear the band creating again. I give them credit for the unique approach.

The Doors The Stones without Mick Jagger? Zeppelin without Robert Plant? Nirvana without Kurt Cobain? All seem pretty absurd huh? Well The Doors actually soldiered on without Jim Morrison… I’d say they were the highest profile band to attempt this. They recorded 2 albums as well as an LP of backing tracks for Morrison’s poetry recordings. This, uh…. was not a great idea. Now granted Manzarek, Kreiger and Densmore were great musicians and the albums aren’t embarrassing. There are actually a few good songs. But it wasn’t going to really work long term. Morrison’s death put them in a tough spot. Maybe they should have formed a new band with a new name if they wanted to keep it going. Nirvana without Kurt would have been a bad idea, but Foo Fighters has been great. Same with New Order - not Joy Division.

Let me know what you think? How do you feel about Earth, Wind & Fire? Chicago? Morris Day & The Time? Ratt? Yes? TLC? ZZ Top? Steely Dan?


M10 Social is owned by Doug Cohen in West Bloomfield, MI and provides social media training and digital marketing services from the Frameable Faces Photography studio Doug owns with his wife Ally.  He can be reached there at tel:248-790-7317, by mobile at tel:248-346-4121 or via email at mailto:doug@frameablefaces.com. You can follow Doug’s band Vintage Playboy at their Facebook page here.  You can also visit our other business Detroit Jerky at the website www.DetroitJerkyLLC.com